guttering,mozzie net

Housing prices in Gib – rent or buy?

Or live in Spain?

The housing market in Gib is odd to say the least.

1) Rent government housing

2) Rent privately

3) Buy government housing

4) Buy privately

As with any small heavily populated space, the usual maxim holds true. You don’t get much for your money, whether you are renting or buying.

After all, on a couple of square miles of land housing 30,000 people (more or less, depending on the ones who are illegal, and the ones who say they live here but are actually living in Spain) you can’t really have a palatial residence unless you are millionaire status.

Let’s start with renting. Standard private rent starts off at five or six hundred – if you are lucky. It’s more likely to be seven, eight or nine hundred a month. People in our not remotely flash block – no gym, no swimming pool, no parking, well not much really – are paying those prices.

An older tenant pays around four hundred a month, but he’s been here for ages and is probably on protected rent.

But what about government housing? A dream come true. Around £20 a week, or around £100 a month. No wonder Gib is full of Range Rover Evoques owned by tenants in government housing.

New government housing at Mid Harbour
New government housing at Mid Harbour

Of course, when you are unemployed and living in government housing, it’s a couple of quid a week and no need to pay electricity/water bills. Or so we were told.

You may need to wait a while for one of these cheap flats though. One of our neighbours was on the housing list for nine years before she traded her £700 a month private flat for her £109 a month government one. She’s also since swapped to a far better estate.

Alameda Estate, built in the 50s. Very nice. Especially at £20 a week.
Alameda Estate, built in the 50s. Very nice. Especially at £20 a week.

Flats in the private sector in Gib are often small, poky and badly maintained. So, many people opt to live in Spain. Cheaper cost of living and better value for money in terms of rented accommodation. People we know pay four or five hundred euros a month for much more space in Spain.

Buying a house is cheaper in Spain too. Even moreso now with the recession/crisis.

In Gib, prices of flats and houses vary hugely. If you want a house, a quick glance at Bray Properties suggests a cheap house is available for a quarter of a mill, while the most expensive one (looks ghastly) is somewhat over £4.2 mill. You do get six bedrooms, six bathrooms, a pool, garage, parking for four cars and views of the tankers in the Bay of Algeciras.

Expensive house
Expensive house

A house we worked on – the one in the pic above – detached, great views, pool, double garage, was on the market for one and a half mill, but is now under offer for one point three something. I wouldn’t buy it for £1300. OK, I would, but only to sell on or rent out.

Working on a house gives a huge appreciation of faults. Steep staircases, gardens difficult to maintain. Especially the ones where you are perching 20 foot in the air on a ladder or a ledge, I know, I did it. Grappling with bougainvillea or that stinky lanterna shrub. Then, internally, there are the damp problems, water ingress into the staircase. And the swimming pool that seems to lose water.

Back in plebland where I live, ie small flats, prices vary amazingly. You can buy a larger flat with more rooms than you can for a small one in the right area. What’s new?

Now, I mentioned government housing for renting. But, there is also government housing to buy. However, you can’t buy into these properties unless you have been a Gib resident for three years. Invariably, these properties are good value, ie larger properties for less money than on the open market.

Government housing here is not like council housing in the UK. Oh no.

There are some prestigious rental blocks. There are some shit holes – the ones that are full of drugs, crime, fast cars, the usual. One of our decorating clients (a lawyer) sold her private flat to buy in a new government development.

In fact, the only people who could afford to buy into the block had to be professional because when the minimum wage is £5.70 an hour how the hell can people afford to buy a flat costing more than £100K out of that?

You ain’t going to get much of a mortgage on less than twelve grand a year.

Of course, there are always the hostels. Toc H, charges around £40 a week, usually full of Moroccans and Portuguese. The youth hostel, Emilio on Line Wall Road, anywhere between £15 and £20 a night, used to include breakfast, no idea if it still does, although it was only toast anyway. Then there is the one in Devil’s Tower Road, no idea about those prices, but it is about to be redeveloped and current residents are being shipped out. To a former prison ship. About which they are not happy.

Don’t come to Gib without money. People do. But it isn’t cheap and the jobs don’t come easy.

My partner was talking to a fellow Welshman this morning, they were but a few valleys apart in South Wales. The name Abertillery came up which I always wanted to pronounce – Abber- tillerry. A bit like distillery. But no, it seems it is Aber – till – airy. That’s the Welsh for you.

However, seems you can buy a house in Aber-till-airy for £35K. There’s no work, but the housing is certainly cheap. Same Welshman also said he thought it had rained every day last year.

‘That’s why I left,’ said Partner, sagely. (Probably 30 years ago by now and it’s still raining there).

But bottom line – £2 a week for rent, if you are unemployed (allegedly), £20 a week in government housing, £500 a month and upwards for private rental. You can pay well over a grand. All plus bills.

Buying – £100K to nearly five mill.

And all this in just over two square miles of land.

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46 comments on “Housing prices in Gib – rent or buy?

  1. The nicer parts of London suffer a similar price problem, even make Gib look cheap dare I say.

    They are building 3 bedroom terraced houses with 10 minutes walk of me, starting from 2.3 million quid. Detached 4 bed ones over £ 5 million.

    Built on the site of a former convent, the nuns can no longer afford to live in London.

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    • Well London is slightly larger than Gib! But they share the same similarities in that the property market is totally skewed, a bit like any capital city or small area eg Monaco, Hong Kong, Singapore.

      Prices are always going to be relative to an income. So to many people, a tiny kennelflat at £100K plus is just out of reach. Let alone a house at millions.

      A detached four bed one at £5+ sounds better valued than a three bed terrace at £2+. I suspect London and UK prices have passed me by.

      Are you still interested in BV? Seems pricey to us for what it is. Anyway, when you have sold where you are we can discuss later.

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      • I’m leaning towards new build property. Other than that I’m very open minded, I’ll see something I like and I’ll snap it up. I can see pros and cons to living a stones throw from Main Street, covenience v. very busy.

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        • I just don’t like new build, but you may have worked that out. The standard of construction is usually not good. Can’t say for Buena Vista as not seen it. I don’t mean they are going to fall down, but the internal work is poor. But I just happen to like olde fashionede houses. They are more solid. Cracks in plasterboard walls on properties that are 1-2 years old isn’t exactly good.

          Main Street itself can be busy/noisy, although only pedestrian noise, apart from early morning vehicle deliveries when commercial trucks are allowed to drive up there. Oddly though, the streets off Main Street are actually quite quiet. The main noise is around 8-9am when people are going to work. I’m glad we bought where we did, but South District is a good choice. Quiet, just a bit further away. I wouldn’t want to be walking back from Morrisons, or even Coviran at Jumper’s.

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          • I’m thinking something along the lines of a fiat 500 might be required for the twice weekly shopping trip, or maybe something small and electric. I agree about walking, but properties in South District often have parking available right outside.

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          • He says that the new fiats are extremely nice, because they are old style.

            In a lot of parts of SD the bus does go there but obviously not to BV. After all, people who live in BV have cars. Properties in SD may have parking right outside but it doesn’t mean they ever get in there, and it is permit holders only. But the streets are always full, whether you have a permit or not. Catch as catch can.

            We have parking outside our block. It’s not even worth trying to get in there. Especially with all the motorbikes who work on Main Street. Our neighbour has a disabled permit so he basically has a permanent place. We have a loading bay permit but don’t abuse it. Others need to use it, so we only use it as and when.

            The issue about supermarket shopping is that the veg are overpriced and not fresh, so our shopping habits are diverse. But the veg issue prob won’t bother you. And because of where we are, a 20 min leisurely walk down and a free bus ride back works for us.

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          • You mean a leisurely walk down for Master Partner. I find even a couple of bottles of wine make the shopping too heavy to carry any distance, but I have no problem with a 20 or 30 min walk unburdened.

            Some of the apartments I’ve looked at on the net have reserved parking or a garage, which one would need for an electric vehicle. I guess an old building with a fully refurbished interior might be possible but I have no DIY skills having never so much as painted a wall.

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          • You’re right. You know I avoid the hateful supermarket run. Wine and beer are annoyingly heavy. Although when we first came here I seemed to be able to carry them back. Old age eh? I don’t mind the walk there. It’s the actual shopping and the return burdened journey. i know you are thinking electric, but don’t forget fuel is cheap here.

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  2. Prices are roughly comparable to those where I live. Median price for a 3 bedroom bungalow here would convert to about 220,000 pounds. Renting a 1-bedroom basement apartment is about 700 to 800 pounds per month. Frankly I’d hate to be starting out now buying a new house…

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  3. Wow! That is a very small area and a very long waiting list for government housing. There are waiting lists here but the last I heard a few year back it was about 3 years. There is a lot more area here though and a lot of choices for housing. You sure are brave to get up on that ladder and work on places like you did. The upkeep on some places is just way too expensive for me. With rent and prices of buying today I am ever so thankful we bought our place 40 years ago and it is paid for. Hugs

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    • People just can’t afford to buy so they have to rent, which is expensive so they all go on the government list. Have to say I wouldn’t rule it out at some point.

      I should have added a ladder pic of the garden, maybe will post it later if I find one. In fact it was quite peaceful, once I had stopped fretting about falling off and bashing my skull in!

      On-going – and ever-increasing charges are one thing, plus bills – upkeep and maintenance is another, and one that has never cost us much as my partner works in construction. Although does get slightly fed up with going out to work and coming home to do the same thing.

      We bought our first place 25+ years ago. We don’t have any debt either thank goodness.

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  4. You can get a lot of housing for your money (and not too far from the beach) in our area here, but good paying jobs is another story. Guess that’s why the place is stuffed with pensioners from up north who’s average age is approx. 115.
    Can’t blame them though I suppose. Why live in the freezing and expensive north when you can be enjoying the warm relatively inexpensive south?
    One big problem with living here among all the old folks is that many of them don’t have a lot to do during the day other then hit some of the local bars and restaurants starting in early afternoon. Drunk driving is a national pastime here so it makes riding my motorcycle all the more fun and challenging.

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    • Sounds a bit like where we live in Spain, except the incomers are Northern Europeans who want – sunshine, a cheaper lifestyle, and a villa with a pool. However property is not that cheap on the Costa del Sol of Andalucía and many have to settle for a small flat on the coast. If they have a pension, it probably covers their living costs. If they don’t, and they spend all their time thinking they are on holiday and drinking/dining out, they soon run out of money. That doesn’t apply in Gib because it isn’t why people come here, but the Costa does mirror your part of the world. Not sure the oldies drink and drive though, Brits and other Northern Europeans were brought up with the breathalyser so the majority of us don’t D/D. Some who live in the campo (countryside) get into it however, because Spaniards do it, DD has only recently become a serious crime.

      I didn’t even get into serious Spanish housing costs. Probably for my next Spanish post. If I remember :D

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  5. All the best laid efforts to equalize the world and eliminate the classes DO NOT WORK. The poor get poorer, and the rich get richer, no matter where you live. Sad but true… what does it say about us as a race?

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    • I didn’t even know there were any efforts to achieve equality, merely for the rich to hang onto what they have. But any change of political system only affects the ones in the middle, because similar to your words, the rich will always be so, as will the poor. In fact, I’m not sure that political changes make that much difference to the ones in the middle either. It feels increasingly like the caste system. For the most part, there you are born and there you will stay.

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      • It just shows that humanist ideology remains – ideology. The basic drives which create the vortex in which greed and corruption recycle themselves through the centuries can’t be touched by policy or political will, but by morality. And no one will come together on whose morality is more moral – so there we stay, stuck. Rather a fine kettle of fish, isn’t it? :(

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        • Still sad though. For example, my view would be that there would be more food to go round and more water if less people ate meat, or people ate less meat (whichever option you choose). Less water used on animals, on growing crops to feed animals etc etc. If people walked or used public transport (well, where there is any), less energy used and healthier. If people don’t buy the latest craze of whatever gizmo, if, if, if. People want. It was years before I bought my first Apple for home use, even thought I’d had the money to buy one for ages. But there was nothing wrong with my IBM, so I couldn’t (to me) justify a new computer. Who is to say my values are better or worse than anyone else’s?

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          • And just because I agree doesn’t mean that both of us are right – although it makes good sense. :) Impossible to stifle the globalized ‘want market’ – and I agree with you – it IS sad.

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          • Isn’t that the case about ‘who’ or ‘what’ is right. I happen to think my view makes more logical sense and is less selfish regarding the rest of the inhabitants of this planet and its environment, but I fully accept that doesn’t mean it is ‘right’ We can all prove or cite resources to justify our own perspective, but it is still all very subjective. I am so not a fan of globalisation. I blame the internet!

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          • Truth is while I enjoy blogging specifically, if you asked me whether I preferred life without mobile ‘phones and internet, I would have no hesitation in saying yes. That’s before you even get into ethical issues regarding globalisation and consumerism.

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  6. Good post – you have persuaded me to stay in Lincolnshire! I used to think it would be wonderful to live in Spain or Greece or France but in the last couple of years I have changed my mind completely and will settle for occasional visits. My plan to run a camper van around the continent one summer is still very much on the agenda however.

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    • I remember you thinking about living abroad. Did you used to watch Amanda BigTits? ‘Hello, my name’s Amanda Lamb, and I’m here to show you .. whatever’ I was glue to that programme, for the venues obviously, not so much the Caribbean ones or America, but certainly all the European ones.

      I’m an economic migrant. Pure and simple. Couldn’t live in a decent area in the UK without working so here I am. I doubt I could fit back in though. The bureacracy and level of idiocy was doing my head in back in the last century. Here, I just blend into the sunny fittings.

      Most northern Europeans come here in the winter as it is warmer here than it is in northern Europe. You may wish to consider that although if you are going to be in northern Spain it will probably be colder than the UK. I suppose the ideal is to do northern France Spain in either autumn and migrate down here later, or come here first and move up north when it gets warmer in t’ south. And of course, then you have to fit in Italy, Greece, Croatia. Depends which countries you are looking at and whether you are wild camping or camp siting. Bloody expensive camping in Spain I tell you.

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  7. GiB prices sound like New Orleans.. Despite damages from The Hurricane, rental and buying prices are really too high for what one gets. i am not buying a property (will wait for at least a year and then try to get a small fixer-upper as they are very cheap, approx 60,000 (USD) for a 3 bedroom house)..until then i am looking at roughly 1,000 (USD) rent a month (*choke*).. there is no govt housing available for anyone which is rather distressing for the lower income people.

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    • I was really interested in the prices you put up last time, as with Maurice’s (Newfoundland). It’s so much more meaningful to read info from people on the ground than looking say, at estate agent sites. I guess despite the hurricane, it’s still a desirable place. One of the few in America I’ve always been interested in visiting, it sounds so exotic.

      Is there any work in New Orleans? That is seriously cheap. We’re on the ‘plane, right now! But that rent is horrific. It always bugged me when we were first starting out that paying a mortgage was cheaper than renting, so why wouldn’t the ****ing banks give me a mortgage? I had to go cap in hand to my parents to get a whacking deposit to be able to buy a house. We met the payments, no problem there. I mean the house had nothing in it, but who cared? Not me. Renting is even worse as you get older. We know people who anticipate working until they literally drop dead because they have to find the rent money. Sad times for people. I’m just waiting for the (Victorian) workhouse – don’t know if you had them in America – to come back. I seriously think it will.

      If there is no subsidised housing – how on earth do poor people manage?

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  8. Jeez, that’s a vast difference in prices.
    The private rental is a similar price here, but £1.3 Million would buy me a mansion.
    I can’t speak for council property, but I doubt it would be as low as Gib’s government housing prices.

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    • It’s incredible. We also know someone in the private rental sector who had a dispute with her landlord and took him to the rent tribunal and got it reduced to £29 a week. Now while it may not be a palace, that sort of money is not going to give a landlord enough money to invest and maintain a property adequately.

      And as for the work that gets carried out on government housing (which A has worked on) goodness knows where the money comes from, because the exterior contracts are multi-million pound jobs.

      Last time I remember anyone talking about council housing rent it was £40 a week. But that was like more than 20 years ago. And it absolutely shot up after that. I could start on right to buy, but I won’t.

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  9. A Spanish housing costs post would be great if you get a chance to get to it. We have a Spanish friend living in our village and Spanish housing / costs etc, often comes up. I would be really interested to hear your take on it.

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    • A Spanish housing one will be largely limited to Andalucía as I don’t have enough knowledge of the north ie as we are the furthest south, anywhere else is north! I’ll have a look next time we are back. Last time, my pesky partner was trying to look at estate agents and I was bored to tears ie I don’t want to sell, I don’t want to buy so this is a waste of time. I’ll pay more attention on our next trip. I can do a bill post, ie utilities, other costs anyway.

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      • A bill post would also be great if you get the inclination! I asked our friend about the cost of daily living and general goods, take-out, beer & wine – (all the essentials) and she reckons they come in at about double the cost paid here. Seems a bit hectic.

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        • Our friend from Gauteng was pretty horrified at the prices here in Gib. Especially when he discovered our poky one-bed kennelflat (no outside space, no balcony, nada) cost more than his four-bed det house in SA.

          I’ll get around to the bills one, I’ll do the monthly ones that we receive, and an annual total. I also jotted down some more food costs on my list trip to Spain, I just need to remember to save some Gib receipts to compare with them because there is a lot of cross-border shopping traffic in both directions.

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  10. Isn’t the housing market odd everywhere?
    As the markets and ranges are so varied, possibly the best way for me to respond for Sydney is by quoting from the media.
    In Sydney “resilient” conditions raised house prices by 3.4 per cent to hit a record average of $656,400. Unit prices rose 5.6 per cent to a new high at an average $475,300.”
    “Melbourne house prices posted only a minor rise of 0.5 per cent to $526,300, buoyed by a strong close in the fourth quarter after a weak run earlier in the year.”
    “The middle part of the market ($500,000 to $600,000) has been responsible for pushing up prices in Sydney, but remains subdued in Melbourne, where $1 million-plus homes have driven the growth.” [http://www.theage.com.au/business/sydney-outpaces-melbourne-as-house-prices-recover-20130131-2dlv2.html]
    For rents, http://www.smh.com.au/business/rental-market-hits-the-twospeed-accelerator-20121026-289ic.html quotes Sydney’s average house rental at $520 and unit at $470 per week and “Darwin was, and continues to be, Australia’s most expensive rental market for both houses and units, with weekly house rents $180 above the next most expensive capital — Sydney — and $272 above the national capital city average. Similarly, Darwin weekly unit rents are $60 above Sydney’s and $140 above the national average”.
    Of course, there are heaps of jobs in the capital cities…
    For comparison there are 2 very modest houses for sale in rural Taylors Arm, in the village. Both are 2 bedroom, listed at $105K & $135K. Then there are a range of rural properties for $299K to $850K. As for TA rental, we rent out a similarly modest 2 bedroom house for $150 per week.
    The job market is a bit tight in the Nambucca Valley.

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    • Wow! Aus has got really expensive. I paid 35$ a week for a room in a hostel back in 85. A paid $70 a week in Darwin in a hotel including breakfast and packed lunch, probably around 82. The flat we rented in Potts Point was around 200$ ish a month (i think but I’m not too sure) and would have been around 35K to buy. Would have been a good investment at the time and we could have afforded a mortgage as Adrian was getting good pay on Cockatoo. Wouldn’t have been much good when they closed it though :D

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        • I did like where we lived. The problem was a new tenant who moved in opposite and came in at 2 or 3 o’clock and started playing music, when A was having to get up at 5 am to walk across the gardens to get the ferry to Cockatoo. Not good. Plus, in my aspirational days, I really wanted to live in one of those large delicious houses around the bay. Not a small poky flat. And I was really mentally on a working holiday – unlike the emigrating partner.

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  11. Location, location, location.
    Interested in the housing there. I tend to like the better construction of older places, too – but there are maintenance issues. I don’t want to be in a huge complex – too grim.
    Need to find an area you like/climate that’s mild and cheap, that’s close to stuff so you don’t have to drive and has stuff to look at or do. And long term you need to think about being able to pay it off/afford utilities and maintenance costs.
    Crime is a big issue here – you have to pay to get in a safer area.There’s a wide range of prices. ($200,000-$250,000 should get a nice medium priced neighborhood – but not near water. Prices are up here because so many are moving in)
    Rentals in Houston? Figure at least $1000 a month rent (good area, 1 bedroom apt, fairly new, pool, exercise room – maybe a dog park) as demand is up due to rapid growth in area. Traffic is getting insane, they are building a commuter system, but it’s going slow and built in odd/not useful places.
    New Orleans is still rebuilding from the flooding caused by the dikes breaking (hurricane came and went and downtown was fine – until dikes broke later). There may not be much housing available – but if you are in construction, there’s plenty of work.
    Galveston coastal area is the same. (You do not have to be in union to work in TX like you would have to be on the Jersey shore of the East Coast.)
    Gov/public housing is being rebuilt, there, too. But gov subsidized housing is not a good place to live due to crime.
    Funny last week I was mentioning that Spain might be affordable to buy – if you have money banked to live on.

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    • The housing in Gib is very odd (Spain too), certainly compared with British housing. Our flat isn’t that old – mid 50s (our British places were Victorian, Edwardian and 1930s) – but it’s certainly more solid than new properties.

      There are maintenance issues with any property, but if they are kept up to regularly, then the issues don’t become big. Easy for me to say however, with a partner who has worked in construction for 40+ years.

      Perfect summary of what to look for. The only difference is that we have always invested in a more expensive area (not the most expensive) as a better return on the investment. I’ve always looked to be near public transport. Apart from anything else, you never know when your vehicle will break down. I’ve looked at places in the country, miles from anywhere, dearly wanted one, but pragmatism has always won out.

      Those are pretty cheap prices for a house. You’d struggle to get a flat here for that on the open market (rather than the govt housing market). Or did you mean a flat?

      For a pool and a gym (there are only two blocks with gyms) you’d be looking at more than the prices you quote. Pic of pool here http://wp.me/p1XwsS-5c at Ocean Village, by the marina.

      Traffic is silly here. For such a small place, the amount of people driving less than a mile to work (where they can’t park anyway so they need to go to a car park and then walk to work) is beyond belief.

      Perhaps we should pay New Orleans a visit, one of the places that was always on my America list. Or even Galveston as it looks extremely interesting from your pix. Happy to be in a union though. We’re union people and he is in the one here in Gib, so I suppose we could go to East Coast. Not that we’d get a green card however!

      The older estates here are good, but there are a couple of grotty estates. Not one I’d like to live in. The drugs, the petty theft crimes, violence – knives, fights etc.

      Now would be a good time to buy in Spain when people are desperate to sell. A bad time for sellers though! As I said to My Bright Life I’ll be doing a Spanish comparison (plus cost of living) in a couple of weeks.

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      • Housing in TX has been cheap (utilities and property taxes are high) because there is so much open space left to build. Those were prices for suburbs outside the city/ drive time 30-60 minutes one way in. IF you want to live “inside the loop” close to one of the 3 “downtowns/city center” houses will cost more – especially if you want an historic area like Heights, near the medical center/museum area or really nice like Bellaire or West University. There’s a mix of new large and old wooden frame houses – but the traffic makes living close desirable. (only you’ll need to pay for private schools if kids). They are building lots of flats/apartments and townhouses. (No one lives in gov. housing but unemployed/poor seniors. Some apts do have agreements for gov subsidized rents for some units) We lived in New Orleans for a while – long before the storm. It’s cool. (Mafia bosses do live there – we had one family trying to buy into our neighborhood – people were livid about it) There’s opportunity there like in Galveston. Not sure if “new arrivals” would be welcomed by trade unions (they charge really high fees and dues) – so right to work state would be the easiest option. We bought several houses and fixed them up – but then market changed. Here, housing is getting in short supply, again, so houses may be back as an investment. This one is built to hurricane standards and on high ground – and one story. If we can find something on the water, we’d like to do that and rent this one. But we’ll see…there’s always mountains calling, too….

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        • I always thought American property prices were cheap but I didn’t realise taxes were so high. I was quite surprised to read some of the figures in the comments.

          There’s mafia (of differing nationalities) everywhere, including Spain and Gib.

          Must remember to include the union rates in my next pricing round-up, the construction one here is pretty cheap, and actually helped us resolve a financial dispute.

          When we are really skint, if we can’t sell, we’ll have to look at renting out, but for now, we can survive.

          There is lots of housing on reclaimed land in Gib, but I wouldn’t be buying it. I’m happier in the city walls, people built their houses on the rock (so to speak) and not on the sand, and that was for a reason. We nearly moved to the mountains in Spain, until we had a friend came to visit and we excitedly explained that we wanted to live in this particular village. The expression on his face said it all. We dropped the mountains plan.

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